Monday, August 9, 2010

Sexual transgressions worth mentioning.

My roommate Gabe has been up to no good. Having served my mission with him I knew he was a hopeless romantic. I guessed that the ladies would like him. I never fully grasped how aggressive he was in relationships until I lived with him. I noted yesterday that Gabe did not partake of the sacrament. Late last night after watching some Adult Swim I asked Gabe how things were going with his latest squeeze.

Gabe's girls name is Taren. She's a red head and seems pretty sexually charged. Honestly, I haven't had too many conversations with her because Gabe keeps her to himself. Gabe told me, "Things have gotten a little hot and heavy lately." I said, "How hot and heavy?" Gabe smiled nervously and said, "Well, I won't be taking the sacrament for a while. Let's put it that way." I looked at him. Did he really think he could leave it there? Did he forget when we were on our mission and we had 'past transgression nights' where we would describe in great detail all the bad things we had done?

I said, "Dude, this is me you're talking to. Why don't you put it in a way that I'm going to know exactly what happened?" He looked at me sullenly and said, "It's bad." I replied, "How bad?" Gabe replied, "Like... like a ten." I almost yelled, "A ten???" He looked at the ground. I continued, "Dude, are you telling me Taren's got your V-card?" Gabe looked shocked, "No, NO! Not that bad. Geez." I laughed and said, "Isn't 10 the highest? How high up does this scale go?" Gabe said, "Um yeah I didn't know there was a real scale, but I guess if there was and what I did was a ten then it would go up to, like, 14." I laughed and said, "I'm obviously not very experienced because I thought there were only three bad things you could even do, and you're saying there are 14." Gabe and I stopped talking about a scale and he went on to tell me what actually happened between he and Taren.

From time to time, even with us Mormon bachelors there are sins committed that we generally don't talk about on the blog because we want to keep things appropriate. We don't want to write things in bad taste or that might make Heavenly Father shake his heavenly head. At the same time these are real things that happen to real people. To avoid discussing them altogether seems like we're pretending they don't happen. That doesn't help anyone, not that that is this blogs sole purpose or anything, but helping has become an "originally unintended" side effect.

Part of why I write is to shed light on the reality of being a twenty something male who also happens to be Mormon. Though Mormons are taught not to break the Law of Chastity and try their very best not to break the Law of Chastity that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It does happen, and dealing with it and overcoming issues of chastity are part of the process of learning and growing.

So after relaying my talk with Gabe to Calvin, to try to keep in line with being tasteful and still being true to the truth, we have devised another scale to talk about chastity transgressions. We will use this going forward on the blog to discuss what, if any, sexual transgressions are worth mentioning.

How bad is bad? Here is what the "For The Strength Of Youth Pamphlet" says:

Before marriage, do not do anything to arouse the powerful emotions that must be expressed only in marriage. Do not participate in passionate kissing, lie on top of another person, or touch the private, sacred parts of another person’s body, with or without clothing. Do not allow anyone to do that with you. Do not arouse those emotions in your own body. In cultures where dating or courting is acceptable, always treat your date with respect, never as an object to be used for your lustful desires. Stay in areas of safety where you can easily control your physical feelings. Do not participate in talk or activities that arouse sexual feelings.

It has been a couple months since I have read through this...

Originally I had planned on citing that this pamphlet was really only targeting "The Youth" which means 12-18 year olds. Surely, I thought, we 23 year old returned missionaries live by a higher law where "[lying] on top of another person" is a necessary evil required in finding a spouse. The "For The Strength of Young - Single Adults" must surely have a different set of rules. Well I think it's safe to say the above copied and pasted paragraph is pretty clear. Basically if you whisper to a member of the opposite sex too close to their ear you are crossing the line.

It's true if Gabe and Taren were following the FTSOYP guidelines they definitely wouldn't be passing along the Sacrament tray.

The sad reality is, however, that 20-somethings are constantly arousing the powerful emotions that must only be expressed in marriage. We should all strive to be more chaste.

Now that I have spent a couple of paragraphs covering what we all know we should be doing, I'm going to now talk about the scale that Calvin and I came up with to illustrate what transgressions go on among our peers, and (heaven forbid) someday Calvin (because I, of course, would never break the Law of Chastity) so that we can write about it on our blog without getting into the juicy details.

We chose, again, to do a 1-10 scale because, well, we can't always be creative. With the FTSOYP as our guide to what is "bad" we came up with the following:

We call it the N.O.T.I. scale... or the Nasty or Otherwise Transgressional Infractions (pronounced "Naughty") Example of use:

CALVIN: So... did you score?
JAKE: Yes.
CALVIN: N.O.T.I. 4 huh? That's pretty good for a 2nd date.

I am trying to be careful about the words I use so as to not offend while still illustrating what I hope this list helps me to never have to illustrate with more than one of these numbers.
  1. Unpassionate kissing
  2. Passionate Kissing
  3. Vertical Make-out
  4. Horizontal Make-out
  5. Necking
  6. Light Petting
  7. Dry Humping
  8. Heavy Petting
  9. Oral Sex
  10. Intercourse
If, for some reason, you're unclear as to what each of these things are, feel free to click here for a more detailed and slightly inappropriate list of definitions.

Again, I am not condoning any of these activities. In fact I would suggest that everything above a 5 needs to stop right now and probably wouldn't hurt to discuss with your bishop. I further submit that everything above a 2 leads to things beyond a 5 so be very careful and avoid them at all costs! I know I do.

Oh, and I basically wrote this whole thing up to tell you that Gabe and Taren were N.O.T.I. 8... tsk tsk. I hope the repentance process isn't too hard on them.



Laura said...

Wow. This was probably one of the more informative posts I've read. I'm not sure how a bunch of your loyal readers are going to feel about this one though.

Anonymous said...

Aww I miss the dating days of doing 4-8. Especially 7 thats fun. Now that I'm married we kinda stick to 9&10.

Anonymous said...

you think that light petting comes before DHing? No way. I disagree. I think those should be switched.

Anonymous said...

Good to know what Necking is defined as; as in the church that is never explained and tends to lead one to believe it is just kissing the neck. Or if looking for a 50's dictionary definition; making out. Thank you for defining what Necking is.

Michelle Nielsen said...

just found this blog through someone elses. this is a great post.

Michelle Nielsen said...

just found this blog through someone elses blog. i had to check out mormon bachelor pad. but of course many a girl probably would. though to continue onward with my comment, i think this post is grand. in fact, i think you nailed the n.o.t.i list as well. i give you props.

Anonymous said...

What is necking? Is it making out? Is it kissing necks? This has always thoroughly confused me.

And when will the church learn that no one calls it "petting" anymore?

Heather Guymon said...

Good thing I am married. My head hurts reading this.

Bad Horse said...

Anonymous 10:46 See the link Jake provided that tells what Necking is.

And at least we all know what petting is. Petting or groping, we still know what is being talked about. Necking on the other hand, isn't.

Anonymous said...

I love all the scales haha.

Tom said...

A very honest post.

Anonymous said...

under definition of necking; toe-sucking??? really!?

Steven said...

I pet my dog all the time. I pet him this morning before I left the house for work! Do I need to talk with my bishop?

Anonymous said...

What about masturbation and pornography? I think those are "worth mentioning." Especially since they are forbidden even after marriage.

Ali said...

About time you guys make a NOTI Scale!

Nikki said...

First I was angered and then I was aroused. Nice post I say as I smoke a cigarette.

Anonymous said...

Is masturbation not allowed after marriage?

Tom said...

probably not.

Nikki said...

Masturbation is always allowed, you just get docked points when you do it. Masturbate don't fornicate.

Tom said...

What about masturbation with the partner? Is that fornication?

Bad Horse said...

Nikki, isn't Masturbation against the Law of Chastity too?

Waited For a Sister Missionary said...

Good one. Necking is always a weird one, not that necking is weird, but I think it's hard to place in this list.

All of the people posting how now that they're married they only ever do 9 and 10 make me sad. I hope that's not true.

Anonymous said...

I've never heard that masturbation wasn't allowed after marriage. Isn't it called mutual masturbation then? You do it with each other. And... well then all of my friends, me, and my family are going to hell.

Nikki said...

BH, of course, but certainly not to the degree of fornication and adultery. Masturbation 101: Today masturbating is different than it used to be before porn was available on your phone. A lot of guys now days masturbate to pictures and that can lead to non-emotional arousal and an inability to emotionally get it on and up. How are virgin dudes supposed to get rid of their junk? Sex, wet dreams or masturbate. I am sure your Mormon mommy prefers you masturbate to the fornication option when in your teens or unmarried 20's or 30's and 40's. That's why most singles wards are full of unmarried Jack-offs. They have to. Leave the porn alone and treating your body like it's an amusement park won't be such an issue, it will simply be fulfilling a biological need. But most guys can't do that. They get off visually first and wetting the bed is embarrassing. For women, masturbation is always sexual. GIDDDYUP!!

Anonymous said...

Well of course masturbation is better than porn or fornication. Ideally guys wouldn't need to release their junk. Just let it happen via wet dream without provoking yourself.

Unfortunately that doesn't happen.

Tacey, Mormon Skank? said...

adored this post. thanks a cubic buttload for clearing things up for people and helping to make stuff more definable.

Nikki said...

You say unfortunately I say fortunately. Personally I hope the church accepts masturbation long before they ever accept gay marriage....

Anonymous said...

But just because it is better, doesn't mean it should happen. Yes, it is a release. But for many who dont masturbate, they dont have to release the pressure.

But tell me why you think pleasuring yourself should not be a sin.

Nikki said...

Why don't you tell me why it should be a sin. Is getting pleasure really a sin? If it is, I'm out. I got get my jollies in this life or it is just gonna suck ass. No joke.

l a u r e n said...

I like how you just laid it out there, black and white. The church is always talking to us (youth and young adults) about chastity, but no one lays it out there like you just did. Kudos. :) I think if more people taught the law of chastity like this, there wouldn't be as many people living in the gray-almost-black area that think it's ok. A lot of people think that if it's not FULL ON SEX, it's ok. Thanks for clarifying all of that. :)

cAMI said...

From a talk that Spencer W Kimball gave about chastity and sexual purity.
The full talk can be found at

But this is the section regarding masturbation where it clearly defines it as not acceptable in the church.

Masturbation, a rather common indiscretion, is not approved of the Lord nor of his church, regardless of what may have been said by others whose “norms” are lower. Latter-day Saints are urged to avoid this practice. Anyone fettered by this weakness should abandon the habit before he goes on a mission or receives the holy priesthood or goes in the temple for his blessings.

We would avoid mentioning these unholy terms and these reprehensible practices were it not for the fact that we have a responsibility to the youth of Zion that they be not deceived by those who would call bad good, and black white.

common sense said...

Masturbation is "sexual relations outside of marriage" if you're alone, even if you're married.

That is why pornography is brought up at every general conference, usually in the priesthood session. Men (including married men) that have pornography issues, typically have masturbation issues as well. If their wife is not participating, then it is breaking the law of chastity.

Quoting "True to the Faith" p.30-31

"All sexual relations outside of marriage violate the law of
chastity and are physically and spiritually dangerous for
those who engage in them."

"Merely refraining from sexual intercourse outside of marriage
is not sufficient in the Lord’s standard of personal purity.
The Lord requires a high moral standard of His disciples,
including complete fidelity to one’s spouse in thought and
conduct. In the Sermon on the Mount, He said: “Ye have
heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not
commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh
on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with
her already in his heart” (Matthew 5:27–28). In the latter days
He has said, “Thou shalt not . . . commit adultery, . . . nor do
anything like unto it” (D&C 59:6)."

Anonymous said...

I am not surprised that nikki disagrees with the masturbation thing.

But she also has no problem with swearing and smoking either, so I don't think she is the person we should be looking to for answers about sexual purity and the law of chastity in the church.

Nikki said...

True dat!! I also want to mention that The Miracle of Forgiveness also said Cain was Bigfoot. Masturbation is the least of our troubles in the church future GM's quoting authored and paid to do books as though they are scripture.
Don't look to me for chastity tips, but definitely look to me for tips on how to get your freak on. YOWZAH!!

Nikki said...

True dat!! I also want to mention that The Miracle of Forgiveness also said Cain was Bigfoot. Masturbation is the least of our troubles in the church future GM's quoting authored and paid to do books as though they are scripture.
Don't look to me for chastity tips, but definitely look to me for tips on how to get your freak on. YOWZAH!!

Bad Horse said...


If Cain honestly were on the earth, I doubt he'd be stretching his boys for everyone to see.

Besides, Miracle of Forgiveness is just a book, not approved by the First Presidency. Masturbation has been talked against multiple times.

So they are different issues.

Ducky said...

I like you Nikki. That is all.

Alicia said...

ha! heavy petting makes me laugh... but this definitely takes me back to the good ol' days in the singles ward....a little levi lovin' never hurt anyone! i kid. i kid. but seriously, the scale was awesome.

Anonymous said...

i want to 10 you jake

Michelle said...

ok so the scale is great...but you guys are scumbags, and you are making it seem like the way you act with girls is normal for LDS people, and almost ok. ITS NOT NORMAL OR OK to act the way these guys do in our church.

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Anonymous said...

My girlfriend and I previously have been at nine and ten we talked to the bishop and we have been fighting the temptation for like two months failing after periods of being strong we recently almost went to ten but we stopped at eight, does this sound like progress even though it's clearly still a sin?

Unknown said...

What about anal? What does that fall under?