Monday, March 1, 2010

Don't call me sometime

Saturday night I went on a date with a girl my sister set me up with. Calvin had a date too, and we doubled.

Doubling with Calvin is like playing basketball on LeBron James team. I have to do almost no work, and I almost always win.

Calvin and I are perfecting the date. Our hypothesis is, if the girl laughs, feels important, and we smell good, then the fact that we are 6's won't matter and they will fall desperately and madly in love with us.

That's the hypothesis anyway.

So, Saturday was great. We barely had to dip into our scripted dialogue because we were just bouncing so well off each other. One example. My date says, "Yeah, I've been looking for a place to live for a little while." I say, "Well, if you end up on the street or something you can sleep in my bed." Calvin, hears this, points across the table and says, "Did you just offer her your bed?" I respond, "Yes." Calvin looks confused and says, "Oh... that is sweet, but... where will you sleep Jake?" All eyes rested on me. I shifted my eyes back and forth slowly from her to them as I said, "In... my... bed." (Purposely cracking my voice slightly on the last word.) The table burst into laughter. That's just one example and that little exchange will be added to our scripted dialogue for future outings.

So, needless to say, my date was going great. We rode together on the date, but made sure that come time to take the girls home that we would be driving them separately so as to maximize our chances.

My date was cute. She had a short, almost boy, haircut that was bleached and colored in kind of a messy punk look. She had a great neck, I had been visualizing my mouth on it since dessert.

As we were pulling into her neighborhood, we started talking about divorce. She brought it up. Her parents were in the middle of a pretty hairy divorce, I gathered, as I sort of half-listened while trying to remember what her porch looked like so I could plan my approach in the best way possible. She then asked me what I thought about divorce. I said, "Nasty business." She said, "Yeah. I never thought it could happen to me, but now that it's happening to my parents, I guess anything is possible." I said, "Yeah, I don't see it happening either, but what do I know?" She says, "I just don't see how one person could leave the other person if they are in love with them, even if they did something really bad." I responded quickly, "Unless they cheated."

She looked at me. I was driving but I could feel her glare. I thought that she was looking because she wanted to hear more on the topic. I said, "If my wife cheats on me, if she has sex, SEX, with another person. I'm done. I am out of there. I don't care what the circumstances are. That's evil and selfish stuff, you know?"

She was silent.

I realized she may not have exactly the same viewpoint as I did. She said, "No circumstances?" I said, "Well, rape isn't really cheating, I wouldn't have an issue with rape." She said, "Don't you think people can make mistakes?" I thought for a second. I could see this conversation was taking a turn for the worse. Do I opt for telling her what she wants to hear and salvage the doorstep scene? Or, do I tell her what I really think and risk losing my chance at that collar bone?

I said, "I've never been in love enough to want to marry someone, so my opinion means little, but... I have to believe that if my wife and another guys johnson were involved in any... uh in any... if there was any sex or anything like it, I would divorce her." She stared at me. I had stopped now in her driveway. She said, "That is so naive." I looked at the porch. No light, I was really throwing away an opportunity here. She was a cool chick, too. Future dates would be welcomed. I thought about the work involved in reconciling this little disagreement. I decided that I would have to be like, 'what I meant was...' and '...I don't know what I'm taking about... blah, whine, blah' and that i would have to spend at least an hour talking about it in the car. That wasn't worth it so I opted to just say what I really thought.

So, she said, "That's so naive." and I said, "Maybe it is. Maybe. But, it seems to me that Jesus left a provision in his 'no divorce' doctrine for adultery and adultery only. That by itself at least gives someone cause to think my naivety is understandable."

The look on her face just before she blew up was not cute at all. So it was probably for the best, because what kind of relationship can someone have if they can't say, 'You look so cute when you're angry.'

She chewed me out for about five full minutes, her eyes filled with tears, and I really felt sorry that she was dealing with this. It seemed apparent to me that her dad had caught her mom cheating. She wanted them to stay together. Her dad was probably with me on this, though. Amidst her, 'you're so ignorant', 'have no respect', 'need to learn to walk in other peoples shoes', and 'I'm not surprised you're not married'... a bunch of "man hating" undertones came through. She finished with, "Judge not lest ye be judged, Jake." She reached for the door handle and I undid my seat belt. She paused, looked at me with mascara running down her cheeks and said, "Are you kidding?"

I wasn't planning on a make-out or even a hug, but figured I at least should have walked her to the door. She said, "Don't call me sometime." and slammed my car door behind her. I drove home wondering if her parents had just told her about the divorce, like... four minutes before our date or something because her reaction to my opinion seemed a bit much... especially when I didn't know the circumstances when she asked the blasted question.

Seriously though, I think it's safe to say if you marry me and then decide to share the most sacred thing that a couple can share with each other with some other dude besides me... take half my money and get the hell out!

Jake

164 comments:

Shelby Lou said...

Dear Jake, I agree with you.

Sorry she left you hanging.
I have a boy-cut haircut, we can totally hang out.

Really.

Sierra said...

Jake, I totally agree with you.

Rissy said...

gah I didn't even read this.. I just wanted the first comment and Shelby trumped me!

Abi said...

"...take half my money and get the hell out!"

ha! excellent line.

Good post, Jake!
(sorry, the date was a bust)

Belo Prado said...

She did go over the top. My dad cheated on my mom and their divorced now. And you're right, the law of Christ says the only reason you should divorce is for adultery. I think that girl is hypocritical. She is either a lesbian, or she herself would cheat on her future husband, if he cheats on her, she would probably dicorve him. What a loser.

Anna said...

Jake,
You'll probably get a slew of comments all agreeing with you, so, I just wanted to tell you that I agree with you.

Better luck next time, but at least you stood up with your opinions.

Zona Bosted said...

Totally agree with you Jake. Although I have to add if my Big Guy ever cheated he better just leave me all his money and get out!

emz said...

I agree with you. Don't feel bad, she probably doesn't know who to side with, her mom or dad, and she's just defending her mother because she still doesn't know how to deal with what's going on.

Ashley said...

I agree with you. I couldn't stay with my husband knowing that he'd cheated on me and it certainly should go both ways. People do make mistakes, but that is not a mistake that just suddenly happens. There has to be a lot that leads up to it.

scoutingchick said...

I love that you and Calvin have scripted dialogue. hilarious!
Sad and awkward about your date though. That really was pretty unfair of her to throw that at you on a first date - and a blind date at that! geesh

Matthew 5:27-28 said...

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

You my friend are guilty of the same.

Brit O'Connor said...

I can say I'd leave my husband if he cheated on me...but what if he cheated because I turned into a bitch of a wife and treated him horribly/took advantage of him?

There are lots of situations/circumstances that you could probably never understand.

I have a few friends who have cheated...its horrible...but I do think that if two people love each other and work through it- you can have a better relationship than you ever did before something like that happened. Sure, for me, the trust would be completely gone- so it probably wouldn't work- but I wouldn't say no matter what, you'd be out- because you could have been the asshole who caused the cheating to happen.

Just sayin...

Vanessa said...

Wow, I didn't see that coming. I agree with you totally. Cheating=divorce. The end.

Kellie said...

Um.. I agree with you Jake. What you said isn't naive.
Where's the mistake in having sex with another person that is not your spouse? "Hey honey, so I accidentally got in bed with this other guy and we accidentally had sex.. sorry!"
No.. it's a deliberate choice, no mistake. It makes me so mad when people call cheating a mistake. Obviously.

colleenroselle said...

whoa. that is a disaster zone.

she should have known better than to bring her own life problems onto the date.

Kate said...

I never thought I'd read an MBP post that I completely agreed with and wanted to high five you guys for, but this is it.

I've always thought I would never want to get divorced and I believe couples should work as hard as they can to keep their promises and not just give up at the first signs of trouble--but cheating is a deal breaker for me. I do feel for what this girl is going through and that it's different when it's personal. But really? How would she feel if she'd been cheated on by her husband?

Anyway, way to go Jake. I'm glad you didn't back down on your opinion.

Marci Darling said...

I agree with you, jake.

kel(LOVE)lie said...

I think it was judgmental of her not to validate your opinions. I can understand that she is dealing with a lot at home, but that is quite the baggage to carry on a first date...sorry your evening wasn't as promising as it seemed.

Lauren said...

Geez, I could write a novel about this, but I won't. You are SO right. It is not too much to expect whoever you marry to remain faithful. And if they or you can't, what kind of relationship would you be trying to save if you stayed together?

{The Huffakers} said...

I understand where she's coming from because my parents are divorced too. But my parents reason was stupid so maybe I don't understand because there was no abuse or infidelity just no communication. Anyways, she sounds like she's in the middle of the divorce like I was. Not good. She is way too involved and doesn't understand both sides. I totally agree with you though. The act of marriage is not something you take lightly. If my husband couldn't keep it in his pants, you better believe there's going to be hell to pay and vice versa.

Alison said...

I'm shocked that so many of you whole heartily agree with Jake on this. Cheating is a serious grievance. A serious sin. I understand that. However, when you love someone and you love them unconditionally and that person is truly sorry and repentant for their actions I would hope that you could turn to the power of the atonement and at least work toward forgiveness. The atonement and the spirit of forgiveness are one of the most important aspects that the Church is founded upon. I am not condoning cheating by any means, however, I understand to some degree what this situation is about. Cheating does NOT equal divorce. People can be healed and forgiven through Christ and the amazing power of the atonement. People, this is what our church is BASED ON. Its just not fair to directly say that x=y because it doesn't. All circumstances and situations are situational.

Rissy said...

I'm sure she'd feel differently if her husband penetrated someone else.

eden said...

even if someone turns into a "bitch of a wife" or "bastard of a husband" - no excuse for the other person to cheat. that's like saying they didn't have a choice in the matter and you forced them into it.

i don't know that i'd definitely get a divorce if i ever found myself in that situation, but it'd take a long time for me to trust him again.

artsyesque said...

Bummer! Those girls with the cute boy haircuts in fun punk colors should be so much fun! And once a relationship has regressed to unfaithfulness it's a pretty sure bet there are other issues that have been pushed under the rug. If I were cheated on, I wouldn't want anything but him out of my life.

won't tell you who I am. said...

I liked this post. I don't understand why this is a turn on to me...but it is.

I imagine you to be super hot.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Alison. We are actually commanded to forgive those that commit adultery if they have sincerely repented.

"Thou shalt not commit adultery; and he that committeth adultery, and repenteth not, shall be cast out.
But he that has committed adultery and repents with all his heart, and forsaketh it, and doeth it no more, thou shalt forgive" (D&C 42:24-25)

I am not saying that cheating is in any way OK. But there is not a light switch that suddenly turns off when you get married. That is why even lusting after someone in your heart is considered adultery.

Issues like this evoke a lot of emotions, but it is not always black and white. It would be very hard, but I like to think that I would forgive my spouse if this ever happened and try to work through it.

Anonymous said...

Shelby Lou, you sound so desperate. You continually flirt and try to pick up on these guys and they continue to ignore your advances. Get a clue. I don't think they are interested. They are not the type to tell you either, they will just keep ignoring you until you go away like all the other girls they don't like.

Lorelei said...

Even in my dating relationships I have never tolerated cheating. Sure there's forgiveness and the cheater might be penitent and all. And I've forgiven all of the guys who have cheated one me. But there's a difference between forgiving and trusting. I can forgive without placing my complete trust in that person again. Forgiving doesn't mean being a doormat.

Sierra said...

I think people are forgetting something very VERY important. You can forgive a person for cheating and still divorce them.

Whit Sariah said...

amen jake. amen.

Crystal said...

Wow.

I completely agree with you Jake. Cheating is NEVER okay. There are no second chances. Especially when you are married.

Come on people. Geez.

I think you dodged a bullet there pal. Sensitive to the issue or not she had no right to go off on you for voicing your opinion.

And after having gone through the comments; the few people who said things about atonement and forgiveness...that's all well and good but in my experience (which unfortunately is VAST in this arena) if they cheat once they'll cheat again. My ex was a very "religious" guy and he cheated on me constantly. I once asked him, "You say you have strong faith and yet you consistently break one of the Ten Commandments. Do you think all you have to do is say sorry to God and he'll always forgive you?" His answer? "Yes, God forgives all things." My reply? "If that is true than I have serious problems with how lenient God is." I don't for a minute think that God would forgive someone repeatedly for doing the same thing over and over. Why should we?

Sorry, that was long winded.

Anonymous said...

I was trying to give you guys the benefit of the doubt that maybe you guys were actually good guys but this is the blog post that made me decide to stop reading your blog for good.

Jake, I always thought you were a much more decent guy than Calvin but with this post you've made it so clear that you're just as big of an ass as he is.

And to head off an retorts...my husband hasn't cheated on me nor have I cheated on him but if an offense like that were to happen I would hope we'd remember our vows and commitment to our enternal family and at least try to work things out.

Your response to that poor girl's situation was atrocious! I also have to say that I am utterly shocked at how many of your fan girls agree with your short-sighted and judgmental view on this. Oh, who am I kidding...on everything you've blogged about. You and Calvin make me ashamed that you're of the same religion as I am.

Anonymous said...

You obviously don't love your spouse if you can cheat on them. You obviously don't love your kids if you cheat on your spouse. Try to show a little respect and get a divorce before you let your self go after another person. If my hubby ever were to cheat on my he'd get the boot for sure! No matter how much I love my husband if he were to cheat that would be the biggest insult ever!

Anonymous said...

Says the boy who was going to have sex with Sanders and not even feel guilty about it...

Autumn said...

I know you have a bunch of these Jake, but I agree with you. Cheating is a sin. And to all those quoting scriptures about forgiveness, you can forgive them for cheating, but still not feel it's right for you to be with them. Cheating DOES equal divorce. If they don't feel you're good enough, then why should you stay with them? Hmm?

My parents are divorced, but not because of infidelity. Lack of communication maybe? Who knows?

"Once a cheater, always a cheater."

Good post Jake. :]

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 11:59
"You obviously don't love your kids if you cheat on your spouse." - Dumbest comment ever.

I understand that cheating and divorce negatively affect children, but it is idiotic to say anyone who cheats for any reason does not love their kids.

Anonymous said...

Love is the most powerful thing we have. Sure her mother screwed up, but I think what this girl was getting at with her blow up is second chances.

Ya you get burned by fire once, you're not going to stick your hand in again immediately. But like all things, it takes mulitple tries to prove a theory. Her dad's theory probably is that her mother doesn't love him, but maybe he should try again to turn that theory into a proven fact.

Ya it's hard, but the human brain is a strange thing and emotions can often make us do things we never would have otherwise. You never realize what you have until it is gone, but you also never fully appreciate anything unless you have to truly work for it.

You know how badly you want something, but by how much you are willing to work for it. I'd say if your spouse cheats, before throwing them out,test them. Test how much they want to make it right. If they are willing to work their ass off to prove there love for you, then they really do want it. If they give up and agree to a divorce after a short amount of time, then obviously their heart is not in it.

You have a lot to learn, and should practice what you preach. being Christlike. He forgave those who KILLED him and asked others to do the same. Christ would take the time to see the desires of their heart, and forgive.

CharleeWonders said...

Well I wouldn't want to be with someone I love who obviously doesn't love me enough to stay faithful.

Little Debi said...

Ahhh I really don't know who I agree with in this situation. If Daniel cheated on me I would obviously be devastated. But I'm in love with him and I really don't know if I could leave him. Would it take me forever to be able to trust him again? HECK YEAH. But I honestly don't know what I would do.

I guess you can never TRULY know what you would do until you're in the situation. (which will hopefully never happen to me).

Kate Weber said...

I find your opinion on the matter very mature and sweet. I mean, sex is for you and your wife, which is why we wait and it is simply NOT okay for either member in a marriage to cheat on the other. I know that I would be completely crushed if sometime in the future my future husband slept with someone that wasn't me. I just can't see a way to recover from that. I think you spoke right.

I don't blame her either. I'm sure she realizes that you are probably right, but she is simply upset about her parents divorce. It's not a fun experience. I'm sorry for her. But it's probably good you won't get mixed up in that drama right now.

Brooke said...

You should always try to work it out before going the divorce route. I suspect that as you get older you'll change your mind as you see more people go through things like this. It's not always black and white and eternal relationships are worth being salvaged if at all possible.

Little said...

wow....what a reaction? and she was the one that brought up the point! oh well...the whole scripted dialogue you guys do on doubles made me giggle :)

Anonymous said...

"what kind of relationship can someone have if they can't say, 'You look so cute when you're angry.'"

fo shizzle.

lol.

Anonymous said...

anonymous 10:51am: every post you get on here an say that someone loves calvin and jake so much and that it will never be returned. it's called projecting and it's pathetic. did they reject you or what? are their stories a little too close to home for you.

reign in your hate and find something constructive to do. you're not fooling anyone.

Blazzer said...

Jake, your view is young and naive. I think when you said,

"I've never been in love enough to want to marry someone, so my opinion means little"

That is right. There are a large number of issues that would be involved and different in a situation of cheating. Without being in love and understanding love, it would be very hard to understand.

In any case I think without taking "love" into consideration that your answer was an indication of you upbringing and religious beliefs. That seems to be the right thing to learn so that when you are in love and if you do have to deal with this scenario that you will be able to apply it and make a good decision. So, I unfortunately have to fall back on the old, "You'll understand when you're older."

As for the date, sorry you missed out on the collar bone. Too bad she didn't prep you for her question before you put your foot in your mouth.

Great post.

-Blazzer

Crystal said...

*bows to Anon 1:32*

Well said my friend.

Nikki said...

Jake you are dead ass wrong on this and anyone who agrees with you is not married and has no children. My biggest issue with stupid opinions like yours and most of the commentors is that an opinion with no consequence is just an opinion. I said those same words before I got married and my spouse has never cheated on me but I can see if he did and wanted to stay and work it out why it would be worth it for my son and for me. From where I sit the grass is NOT greener anywhere I look and to think otherwise is idiotic.
Your Bishop will and should counsel you to stay with your cheating adulterous wife if she doesn't leave you for the much hotter pool boy she did the gnarly heck yea, with. Besides you might deserve to be cheated on. You might turn into some workaholic douche or worse a lazy ass unemployed pedophile who looks at porn all day. You know nothing about what went on in said marriage relationship. Maybe Dad looked at porn or was a Peter Priesthood doorknob who wouldn't get freaky. I really don't want to hear ANY opinions on this from someone who isn't married. I am not a hater because I disagree, I don't hate you, I just hate your opinion on this issue. Talk to me when you have 20 years under your belt having sex with the same person and when your wife cleans up after your sorry stinky maleness and then I will consider your opinions fair minded. Most of the comments on here are from never been married emotional children. I guarantee if your wife cheated on you there is 2 sides to that story. There always is. Very egotistical words from you. If someone cheats on YOU then they deserve no forgiveness and your children deserve a broken family because of your butt hurt feelings. OUTSTANDING.

LovelyLauren said...

I am utterly appalled by how many people who think that cheating equals divorce. The Church says that almost any issue can be resolved with hard work and faith and FORGIVENESS is far more of a virtue that harshness. It seems to me that if you really loved who you were with, you would remember the vows you made to them, even if they forgot them.

It disappoints me that people feel this way. Christ was characterized by his mercy, and isn't that who we're trying to emulate? It isn't our job to punish for sin.


This was disappointing, Jake. Not just that you feel that way, but for your attitude towards her. Anyone who has seen their parents' marriage fall apart can understand why she would act that way.

The Lady Girl said...

I changed my mind and I actually agree with what Brooke said:

"You should always try to work it out before going the divorce route. I suspect that as you get older you'll change your mind as you see more people go through things like this. It's not always black and white and eternal relationships are worth being salvaged if at all possible."

Divorce is the last resort. As much as you don't want to be with that person. Be the bigger person, help them out, remember the vows you made in the temple. Lust and adultery is a worldly thing and can be overcome. If both parts have truly given all they have to make it work and still no luck, divorce would be an accurate "out".

Anonymous said...

I have to say - I TOTALLY agree. There are a LOT of choices (some small and some larger) before two people end up in bed together... if my hubby was to make all of those choices and sleep with someone else, it would be obvioius to me that we were through. That is unforgiveable in my book! And he knows it.

Anonymous said...

Oh and to Nikki - I am married with 4 kids and I could not disagree with you more!
Adultery is next to murder - I couldn't forgive my hubby if he murdered one of my kids - I couldn't forgive him for essentially murdering our marriage (through adultery). It is WAY too sacred!

Robins Family said...

Well Said LovelyLauren. I hate to say this because before I got married Jake I would have agreed with you 150% on this subject.

BUT...

Being married, knowing the mistakes that I make or vice versa (the hubby). I know they are not in any degree as big as cheating. You will find your self forgiving so much in a marriage. And that goes hand in hand with the Atonement. If your spouse does cheat and goes through the Atonement, then I would dare say you not being able to forgive her is the greater sin. (But I am not the Judge here.)

I really feel bad for this girl. I understand that maybe she shouldn't have brought her problems on the date with her. Maybe she thought you were such a cool guy that talking about this with you, you would be a wonderful listener. Girls never get to the point first off. She obviously wanted to vent a little. Divorce = HUGE LIFE CHANGE. For anyone that is effected by it. I would say you should call her up and apologize, not for your views on divorce but handling the conversation so immaturely.

Sometimes its better to agree to disagree.

Robins Family said...

President Brigham Young is quoted as saying on April 6, 1845:

“I tell you the truth as it is in the bosom of eternity; and I say so to every man upon the face of the earth; if he wishes to be saved he cannot be saved without a woman by his side.” (Times and Seasons, vol. 6, p. 955.)

Also:

1 Corinthians 7:10-11
10. And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

Nikki said...

Anonymous 2:10...Christ asked for anyone without sin to cast the first stone, and he said it about a woman caught in adultery and condemned her NOT, and yet you do, I find that interesting. Do you have a persecution complex? How much better are you than Christ? Adultry next to murder? Come on!! Stop quoting your old Sunday School teacher or Seminary false doctrine teacher who had to "rank" our sins, that is such BULLSHIT. That is right up there with assigning kingdoms to me and you if we were to die today. I would venture to say that there are worse sins than adultry, oh I don't know RAPE or CHILD RAPE? Give me a friggin break. Good luck with those four kids and teaching them that their dad murdered them when he screwed someone else. That is just messed UP.

I can see right through you said...

What is this a contest to see who can bring up the most contraversial subject, resulting in the most comments?

What's next? Gay marriage?

anon 10:51 said...

Shelby, I mean anon 1:32 (and don't pretend like it's not you) I don't hate you, I feel sorry for you. I have never said anything about this to any other commenter so I don't know what you are referring to. Jake and Calvin did not reject me, I am married (but thanks for your concern). And if I were single I would not be pathetically throwing myself at 2 anonymous guys every chance I get.

You are the poster girl for every other girl here that dreams about someday hooking up with these guys. They have no intention of ever revealing their true identities so get over it and move on already!

emmakaren said...

I can see it both ways, and have seen it both ways. Either way, cheating is terrible, but it doesn't ALWAYS have to mean divorce. But sometimes, it should. Either way, good post.

Anonymous said...

There is no golden ticket for getting a divorce.

I am not condoning cheating. It is a sin, it is wrong and I have never cheated and don't ever plan on cheating on my husband (and visa versa).

If someone cheats, it will take time to regain trust, even if you do forgive.

Divorce destroys families.
Divorce has been described as worse than losing a spouse to death. I mean think about that, really think about that.

You are not going to be suddenly happy once you get a divorce. It is not going to take away what they did. Why not try to work it out and keep your family together.

My husbands parents divorced and he is in his mid 30's and still struggles with it. You don't realize the impact it has on so many lives. If a marriage can be worked out, that what is best.

Cassie Lynne said...

I love how upset people get at your posts.. it's like they have nothing better to do than write a novel about why they're better than you or any of the people who comment...
makes me giggle

Emma said...

I get your point but it does seem quite a contradiction based on the fact that you sustain a religious leader who had not one but dozens of extramarital relationships with other women.

A: Joseph kept his marriage to Fanny out of the view of the public, and his wife Emma. Chauncey Webb recounts Emma’s later discovery of the relationship: “Emma was furious, and drove the girl, who was unable to conceal the consequences of her celestial relation with the prophet, out of her house." ...Oliver Cowdery felt the relationship was something other than a marriage. He referred to it as “a dirty, nasty, filthy affair...”

And B: Joseph Smith himself assigned women to some of the Mormon men. He married dozens of women himself. Mormon writer Todd Compton wrote: "I have identified thirty-three well-documented wives of Joseph Smith, which some may regard as an overly conservative numbering..."

His first wife was Emma. He married his second wife Fanny Alger in 1833 when she was 17 years of age. He apparently secretly married Emma's counselor and her secretary in the Nauvoo Relief Society. Emma was president of the group. "This was apparently done without Emma's knowledge or consent."

So you support Joseph Smith and even consider him a prophet but you are completely one sided about the issue as it pertains to your life?

I'm sure you won't post this but it might be food for thought for you. You deserve to know your own church history.

Anonymous said...

I am so happy that more people are saying that sticking things out it the way to go! It makes me so happy to know that not everyone agrees that divorce is the next step. I personally think it's WAY to easy to get a divorce these days. I don't even know what it would take for me to leave my husbandm even if he cheated and didn't want to stop, it would still be so hard for me to just give in and let him go. I'm not saying that because I'm dependant on him for everything, financially I would be fine and I could find another man, the thing is that I don't want to.. EVER.

I really hope that you two actually read all of the comments left with an open mind. There is a lot to learn in this world, a million mistakes to make. Make a few less by listening to others and taking their advice and using it when applicable.

You really need to be more open minded with your dating and with the way you look at the world. If you continue to look for your idea of perfection you may miss out on what life has to offer. It may not be what you thought you wanted, but you might sing a different tune.

Sara said...

I would also like to state my opinion for the record.

I think it's fine for someone to feel like they want to divorce someone who cheated on them; I think it's fine for someone to stay with a person who cheated on them. I do feel, however, that just because one spouse has broken their temple covenants and marriage vows does not mean the other is automatically entitled to end the marriage. I believe that because God knows the thoughts and intents of our heart, He knows that some of us are capable of forgiving, working through the problem, elevating the offending spouse up, and becoming more perfected in the process. For those individuals, I believe they will have to answer to God if they instead choose the easier road of divorce.

On the other hand, I do believe there are some who cannot physically or emotionally handle staying with a spouse who has cheated on them. It is for those people that I believe God opened that window of pardon to have divorce as an option.

Such a sad thought indeed. I guess if everyone just kept the commandments in the first place and kept sacred things sacred--before and after marriage--no one would be in this predicament.

Sara said...

Oh and Jake, it might be a really nice gesture to just call (or text) the girl up and tell her you're sorry for what happened and you didn't mean to be insensitive. This is undoubtedly an extremely difficult time for her and although you don't have to lie or renege on how you feel, it might be appropriate to let her someone cares.

Anonymous said...

Nikki,

It is ridiculous to try and justify adultery by what might have gone on in the relationship. Who cares? That's like an abusive husband blaming his wife for his abuse. A cheating spouse has no excuse - they made a completely selfish, destructive decision.

To suggest a wife cheating is excusable because the husband was working too hard (to provide for HIS WIFE) is absurd.

Also, you confuse forgiveness with trust. No one is saying you can't forgive a cheating spouse, but can you ever really trust someone not to do something they've already done?

Allison said...

Um, I believe your arguement was PERFECTLY valid, and exactly what I would say. Yes, people make mistakes- and I'm sorry she's going through that with her parents... but you didn't deserve that!

Anonymous said...

Emma,

What Church history are you talking about? You'd really better check your facts because you've got it all wrong.

Also, polygyny is very different from ADULTERY, which is at issue here.

The Chrissy Herself said...

You didn't even go on this date, did you? it's all for the comments...

Bonnie said...

"I'm sure you won't post this but it might be food for thought for you. You deserve to know your own church history."

Because seriously, No mormons have ever heard of polygamy.

fail.

That Chick said...

You definitely did not deserve that chew out-age.

Though I guess, you know, she's super sensitive about it and all. regardless, how were you supposed to know that? Sheesh. Chick needs to take a chill pill and not bring up something like that unless she knows for a fact that the person will agree completely with her. And my guess is, not many people will.

Emma said...

"unable to conceal the consequences of her celestial relation with the prophet"

i.e. PREGNANT with his baby

Please tell me how sex was not involved in this union. Sure sounds like adultery to me, especially considering his wife Emma did not know about "the other woman" for several months. Remember too that the concept of "plural marriage" had not yet been introduced.

bd said...

I agree with Nikki.

I am a man, and I am happily married. I can imagine scenarios in which one of us could push the other one into adultery.

It would take A LOT and a VERY LONG TIME, but if things were bad enough, alternatives could be appealing in a moment of weakness. And I know a bunch of you are saying, "well then you should just get a divorce if you can stand each other"... but what if you're trying to keep it together for the kids?

I've seen examples of adultery in which I think the spouse who commits the adultery is totally at fault. I have also seen cases where I sympathize with the offender.

Anonymous said...

Chauncey Webb, like some (but not all) former Mormons, was not sympathetic to Mormonism and is an absolutely unreliable source for anything relating to Joseph Smith or Mormonism. There has been absolutely no reliable evidence, let alone proof, that Joseph Smith ever engaged in any inappropriate behavior with Fanny Alger or any other person. Excerpts taken from from an unsubstantiated website do not count as reliable evidence.

The concept of plural marriage was introduced in Biblical times. It was not unique to Joseph Smith.

Nikki said...

Anonymous 4:06...I am not excusing adultry nor am I saying trust isn't an issue. Adultry is wrong and trusting again is difficult. That is not my point AT ALL. I am saying that it isn't as clear cut as you make it. Your divorcing your husband brings on a whole new set of problems called single parenthood and children in a fatherless home, is your non-forgiving attitude worth that? I think you are just as wrong as the offender. Don't draw the line of who is at fault like that of an abusive situation. Eventually habitual adultry is abusive, that is true and time for a divorce. But I think it would always be in the best interest of the children and the family to try to work it out if there is only one offense and if the spouse is truly sorry. Don't mutate the situation.

Anonymous said...

long time reader; first time commenter --

Jake - you blew it! You had the opportunity to be a human being, not just a guy trying to figure out if he could get some or not. Grow up already, and remember why we are on this earth. You didn't have to explain your opinion in such a black/white "I have the right answer so don't bother me with details" way. You had the opportunity to stop talking, ask her a question back and just shut up and listen. You had the chance to be a compassionate human being. As Christians, that is what we are called to be. Quoting scripture to fit your argument while being an ASS to someone doesn't make God smile........

marthamaeloves said...

Dear Jake,

I neither agree or disagree. But no matter what boys are always wrong. Especially if she is in tears, come on now Jake. Regardless if you had already messed up the front door make-out. You could still be a gentleman, and admit you don't actually know what you're talking about, and just say sorry. My parents aren't divorced, but I'd imagine I'd be pretty upset. Even if it was a month after them telling me. Girls get upset, you need to learn how to deal with it.

you're still my favorite. Calvin is a tool, you should find a new best friend. :)

Anonymous said...

bd,

It is not possible to "push" your spouse into adultery. Adultery is a decision made by the adulterer alone. I think you mean you can imagine scenarios in which you might want to commit adultery, but blaming your adultery on your spouse shows a total failure to take responsibility for your actions. Alternatives might seem appealing, but that doesn't mean they're justified.

And I really don't see how cheating on your spouse constitutes "keeping it together for the kids." If you're worried about the kids, don't cheat.

Anonymous said...

Nikki,

Wow. To suggest that someone who divorces an adulterer is just as guilty as the adulterer is unbelievable. Is it the abused spouse's fault that she's abused?!?

"Eventually habitual adultery is abusive..." Are you serious? Adultery doesn't have to happen even twice to be abusive. Once is enough.

Your placement of blame on the non-offending spouse's "non-forgiving attitude" is grossly misplaced. The reason for the divorce (in this little hypothetical) is the offender's adultery! The offender is the one at fault. They're the one who violated the trust and put their own selfish desires above their spouse and family.

The sad thing is, the children are the ones to suffer. But that suffering was precipitated by the adulterous spouse's behavior.

Hank said...

The real problem here is that you unwittingly foiled a chance for some brazen physicality. You're losin' your touch, dude.

Emma said...

Anon 5:20 will you discredit Oliver Cowdery's experience, one of the original three witnesses to the Book of Mormon?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Cowdery

in January 1838, Cowdery wrote his brother Warren that he and Joseph Smith had "had some conversation in which in every instance I did not fail to affirm that which I had said was strictly true. A dirty, nasty, filthy affair of his and Fanny Alger's was talked over in which I strictly declared that I had never deserted from the truth in the matter, and as I supposed was admitted by himself." Alger, a teenage maid living with the Smiths, may have been Joseph Smith's first plural wife, a practice that Cowdery opposed.[22]
On April 12, 1838, a church court excommunicated Cowdery after he failed to appear at a hearing on his membership and sent a letter resigning from the Church instead.[23]

And what about Sidney Rigdon, Joseph's first counselor?

"First counselor Sidney Rigdon withdrew into sullen inactivity for two years after Smith first (unsuccessfully) proposed polygamy to his daughter..."

You want sources? Read these books:

Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith

In Sacred Loneliness by Todd Compton

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/

And John Dehlin's page:
http://mormonstories.org/top10toughissues/polygamy.html

Okay I have done a lot of research on this lately. That is why I'm bringing this up. If someone could legitimately justify this for me I would go back to church.
I just thought "Jake" should know what he's talking about before defending his attitude that contradicts that of the prophet.

Anonymous said...

Emma,

Go back to Church and you'll find the answers.

Little said...

HA!....wow....i already commented, but just reading more of these comments...people...of course this blog is gonna be one sided argument that everybody won't agree on because it is one person's thoughts and opinions. Ya'll don't need to take things this seriously. Enjoy reading what little snippit Jake and Calvin have to offer and move on with your life...thanks :)

Anonymous said...

Totally agree. Cheating is never okay. Cheating means that the person for whatever time period thought it was okay to love and/or lust for someone else. She totally went overboard, but she just went through something rough. Move on.

S. Mormon said...

Hey Bachelors! I read your blog quite a bit and think it is refreshing that you are being honest and allowing the perfect facade fall away to reveal that we are real people. I started a blog about being a struggling mormon and would really like to see others participate because I think it could help a lot of people. You have quite a following and I was wondering if you might give my blog a shoutout or link it up. Check it out:

www.coasmormon.blogspot.com

-Thanks

Nikki said...

Emma...STFU.

Nikki said...

Anonymous 6:01...Yes your unforgiving attitude is not good. You think adultry is black and white and unforgivable. I understand it is difficult for a perfect person to imagine a spouse cheating on your perfectness, but when and if your spouse cheats on you will you so adamantly look your children in the eye and defiantly deny the Atonement? You are saying that even though God can forgive and Christ can pay for such a sin, you can not. I don't understand your position. You are one cold-hearted bitch.

Verity Kae said...

I think that everyone would have agreed if you weren't the MBP but since you are they have to disagree. Humorous. Way to be honest and and hooray for trying to be a gentleman and walk her to the door! Chivalry is not dead!

Anonymous said...

Nikki - I gotta say I agree with you!

hmmmmmm said...

Wow, this was quite the heated debate. I'm not married so I'm not going to pretend that my opinion is the right one. I think adultery and divorce, just like everything else, is a personal choice. You can't take someone else's opinion and think it is right.
As for your date, I think your reaction was a normal reaction for someone that was getting attacked (attacked is a strong word but couldn't think of anything better). Was it the right one, probably not, she's obviously really hurting right now (to be completely honest, she probably needed someone to talk to and you were an outsider with no opinion, or so she thought), but when a heated topic is being discussed sometimes you say things you wish you could take back. I'm sure that is how you are feeling right now, especially with what you wrote here about the date (sarcasm).
Anyways, Good Luck! I agree with all those who said it would probably be a good idea just to text her and say something nice, not that you were wrong, just something nice.
Oh, and the LeBron analogy was awesome!!! But the Facebook status... How could Calvin not know who he is (I'm hoping it wasn't Jake since you wrote this post)??? I think that would add fuel to the fire for those who think he's a girl :)

Anonymous said...

Wow, I can't believe how unforgiving some people are!

Whatever happened to forgiving 7 times 70?

And what about this:

"Wherefore, I say unto you, that ye ought to forgive one another; for he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemned before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin.
I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men."

Anonymous said...

wow your posts really seem to ruffle some feathers, i've never read other people's comments before. i assumed that this would be sort of a more tame post and naturally most people would agree with you. i can't believe how offended some people get. (hello ever read elder bednar's talk on being offended ha!) Jake your totally right, cheating=game over. and good for you for not backing down in favor of a fun make out

Anonymous said...

Emma - if you believe what Sidney Rigdon and Oliver Cowdery had to say, then you would believe that the Book of Mormon is true because they never denied that.

It's funny how you can quote people from church history when it is convenient in trying to slander the church.

I don't believe that what you are saying about Joseph Smith is true. But even if it was, that would not change the fact that the Book of Mormon is true, and the church is true and that is all that really matters.

Anonymous said...

I hate it when girls have boy hair cuts. They look like.... boys!

Anonymous said...

Hey anonymous 10:00 pm hello ever read elder oaks talk on divorce ha!

Anonymous said...

to the anonymous person that is fighting with Nikki -

to say that adultery is abuse is totally stupid.

the term "abuse" is overused and thrown around too much to justify divorce.

abuse is very serious and should not be treated lightly. but it should only be considered when it is actually abuse.

abuse is abuse and adultery is adultery. don't get the two confused just to try and justify why you think divorce is ok when church leaders have counseled against it when possible.

Shelby Lou said...

WOW. To both of the two anonymous HATERS that mentioned my name..

You are dumb.

For reals. I mean, if these guys aren't real, and will never reveal their identities, so be it. It's fun to mess around. I'm not throwing myself at them either.. I'm not a cheap hooker, I'm a 19 year old girl with a sense of humor.

ASS HAT.

(bahahaha)

JT said...

Safe to say that everyone agrees... Nikki is a dumb-ass moron. Just shut up and leave us all alone.

Anonymous said...

Take half of what money?

Starlight dreamer said...

good job jake.

that little brat needs to get her head on straight. my parents divorced and both accused the other of cheating but i still won't have cheating in my marriage. she needs to grow up.

Nikki said...

Enough about me, let's talk about me.

Sierra said...

In order to get a temple divorce (that means you're no longer sealed for time and all eternity) very specific and horrible things have to be done. Abuse is one and adultery is another. I guess you should try to work through it, but when someone who is suppose to love you beats you or sleeps with someone else all trust has been violated, and how good can a relationship without trust be? I once had a seminary teacher tell me I was a sinner becasue I would not take a man back if he cheated on me repeatedly. I was not OK with that. It's totally understandable to get a divorce after someone has cheated and the Lord thinks so, too.

And whoever said adultery is second to murder, you're right. It's bad news.

Heather Guymon said...

I am with you on this one Jake. If my husband cheated on me, for HIS sake, it would just be best if we divorced. I could never let it go, which isn't good on MY part, but being in the same house, in the same bed, with him would not be safe to say the least.

I would get all psycho on him more than likely and he would divorce me just to stay the hell away lol.

In all seriousness though, yeah I couldn't deal with a cheater.

Bethany said...

Here's the deal that is an extremely heavy topic for a first date. It shouldn't have even been brought up. Sorry she went off on you! That sucks but if you have never been in that situation then you really don't know how you would handle it. You were just stating how you felt about it now, she must have just found out about it for her to be that extreme in her reaction.

Anonymous said...

Shelby - whoa! hold on here, nobody ever said you were a cheap hooker. if it makes you feel better to call me a hater and ass hat then whatever. but I don't hate you. and you don't need to make stuff up.

I have a sense of humor too and it's not funny to see someone repeatedly throw themself at someone. I am just trying to help you out.

Steven said...

Couldn't agree with you more! If people expect their spouse to stay with them after they cheat, it just leaves the door open for other misdeeds. Trust is huge in any marriage and I could never have it after something like that.
Plus every time they have sex after that he's probably thinking about the fact that his wife got plowed by another guy.

Anonymous said...

Shelby - whoa! hold on here, nobody said anything about you being a cheap hooker. I don't know what that's all about and I really don't want to know.

if that makes you feel better to call me a hater and an ass hat then whatver. but I don't hate you, I am just trying to help you out.

I have a sense of humor too and it is not funny to see someone repeatedly throw themselves at someone.

Shelby Lou said...

Well, you aren't helping. You are making me sound like a cheap hooker, that's why I said that.

If you had a sense of humor you would know that ASS HAT is a continuing joke on this blog. You would also know that I am not throwing myself at them, I am kidding. Plus, they haven't rejected me.. whoever they are, they are my friends (over the internets of course). It is a known fact.

I really just don't like anonymous haters. Really. It makes no sense to try and defend yourself now, saying you are just "helping". Because what you said before wasn't nice or helpful.

We are done now.

Anonymous said...

wow. you mormon girls are straight up crazy. the dude's just stating his opinion. in the words of paul mccartney "let it be".

Alexandria said...

Okay...really folks? Leave Shelby alone before I shank you. I mean honestly why some people are pathetic enough to spend their ever so precious time hating on THIS blog and the people who read it need to take a closer look at their life.

Simmer the freak down. I am friends with Shelby, and she is not throwing herself at anyone. She is joking. It is called a sense of humor (which you say you have, but really...obviously you do not).

Quit acting high and mighty, if she needs your help she will ask for it. But honestly why would she? You are anonymous and hating all over a blog...obviously you are not one to be 'helping' or handing out any advice. Just sayin'...

Jacki said...

anonymous---
hahahaa.
sorry. i couldnt hold it in.
are you really THAT prude and immature, that you cant even READ someone else's flirtatious comments without getting upset?
i'm pretty sure that shelby has a goot head on her shoulders and can make her own decisions. your are not her mother.
and if in fact you are, that's kinda freakin weird.

"im just trying to help you out"
WHAT?

Anonymous said...

To Shelby & Alexandria:

Just from the outside looking in... neither of you appear to have much of a sense of humor if you're getting your panties all bunched up over a few comments. Just sayin'

Anonymous said...

if you have to explain that something is funny or why it is funny, then it is not funny.

Anonymous said...

bullcrap! you are totally flirting and would not pass up an opportunity to make out with one of them and you know it.

uuuuhhhhh... maybe you and your little friends should go back to twitter and spend your ever so precious time wasting everyone's time.

this is so stupid!

Anonymous said...

or go make out some more with sam the anti whatever on the internet.

now that was funny!!!!

Katie said...

How ridiculously immature you all must be to think that she is throwing herself at them!!! I mean, all those that follow both their blogs, and twitters can tell these three people are friends. You must have some serious insecurity issues to tell her that she is throwing herself at them, and to be anonymous!

oh and jake... good call, im totally with you on this one!

Shelby Lou said...

Stop stalking us on twitter if you think it's dumb.

Stop replying if it is a waste of time.

Stop being rude to people.

oh and PS Jake and Calv?

"I want you, I need you, Oh baby, Oh baby."

hahahahahaha

Love,
Me

Anonymous said...

shleby you are making this all worse by calling yourself a cheap hooker. and you are taking this way too serious. where is your sense of humor?

Amber Forman said...

Let it Be was written by Paul McCartney when the Beatles were breaking up. The inspiration for the song came from a dream he had of his mother, or grandmother, I can't remember which, regarding the group. Her advice to him was to let it be, things will play out as they are supposed to.

Just a little bit of useless information for you all!.. On with the bickering.

Sam, The Nanti-SARRMM said...

Anoners, why do you care what she would or would not do.

Flaming someone is not humorous. Throwing out anonymous insults isn't either.

By the way, I do my kissing in person, not over the internet. It's more fun that way. You should try it!

Jacki said...

ohh myy freaak.

seriously? really?
get a life.
you just posted 4 comments in a row. and at least alex can talk about making out with someone with out getting flustered.
maybe you are just jealous of shelb.
she has mad flirting skills.
and in fact, i set her up with an OLYMPIAN recently. so suck on that. all of her flirting here is just extra-curricular.

Jacki said...

ohh myy freaak.

seriously? really?
get a life.
you just posted 4 comments in a row. and at least alex can talk about making out with someone with out getting flustered.
maybe you are just jealous of shelb.
she has mad flirting skills.
and in fact, i set her up with an OLYMPIAN recently. so suck on that. all of her flirting here is just extra-curricular.

Bad Horse said...

Emma, you said, "If someone could legitimately justify this for me I would go back to church."

We can't. We have nothing that Joseph Smith said on the matter.
At least not to my knowledge. Maybe it was a few affairs, or maybe it was revelation that he was not sure about.

If it was the first, and it being a fault of Joseph's to have those affairs, then it proves that he was human. Was he still the prophet, did he still restore the church by God's mandates? Yes. It does not detract from the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon or the church.

If it was an affair, then he has to work it out before God. It is between him and the Lord. But it has nothing to do with God calling prophets leading this church by revelation.

So can it be justified? No. Does it need to be? No. The prophets and apostles are humans too, capable of sinning, and able to state their own opinions.

But even if it were justified, I doubt you'd return to the church because you'd still find some other fault to criticize the church for.

Lindsay said...

The comments on this blog are starting to make me want to stab everyone around me in the eye with a fork.

Sam, The Nanti-SARRMM said...

Do it Lindsey, do it!!! Give into the frustration and join me in the dark side. Together we can rule this comment thread.

Anonymous said...

i think the comments that are not anonymous are the most hateful!

Lindsay said...

Bahahaha! I like you, Sam.

Lindsay said...

UH OH! I was definitely internet-hitting-on Sam there.
I am desperately throwing myself at someone over the internet.
I deserve everyone's anonymous criticism now.

Jacki said...

hehehe lindsay watch out!!
flirting patrol might just pick you up!

Anonymous said...

On the MBP scale. I give Shelby a 4. And when personality is calculated.... a 2.

Zuzu Bailey said...

Like most of the commentators, I totally agree with you. Like a good friend of mine said to her husband "If my man decides he doesn't love me enough to stay faithful to me... I'm not fighting for him! She can have his cheating ass!"

KATE said...

These comments are the most fantastic comments I have read on a blog. To be honest MBP's reader's comments are what keeps me returning. Keep it up guys!

KATE said...

These comments are the most fantastic comments I have read on a blog. To be honest MBP's reader's comments are what keeps me returning. Keep it up guys!

Anonymous said...

Okay people...lets stop the hate now.

Anonymous said...

LOVE...

Anonymous said...

I...

Anonymous said...

And...I...Hope...They...Get...9879498464894654 Comments.

Anonymous said...

MBP...

Anonymous said...

Sam, The Nanti-SARRMM...
Anoners, why do you care what she would or would not do.

Flaming someone is not humorous. Throwing out anonymous insults isn't either.


I AGREE

Alexandria said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shelby Lou said...

Dang. I feel..... I feel like...

I'm a 2?

Oh my.

bd said...

Nikki haters-

I know she doesn't need anyone to defend her, but...

someday you might grow up and start realizing that you are not able to foresee everything that could possibly happen in the world. You will likely come to the realization that grown ups sometimes sacrifice for the good of others and put their own egos behind the needs of others (i.e., their children in this case).

I HATE people that cannot see the world from any perspective but their own. They are selfish and become unhappy when things don't go their way.

comment #139 said...

round of applause great post
so what's in the pool? you must have a bet going on the number of comments, if you don't well then you should
calvin ended with only 200 something right?

just a thought

bd said...

Also, instead of 'Anonymous', why not just post under a pseudoname, so we don't have to keep referring to you as Anon [timestamp]? It would be much easier to have a meaningful discussion that way.

Anonymous said...

bd,

"I HATE people that cannot see the world from any perspective but their own."

Don't let the irony be lost on you.

bd said...

Anon 4:15-

Touche. And catch-22.

noelle said...

amen!

amy j. said...

I used to think adultery was inexcusable, until I saw Sex and the City. Seriously people, if you can watch that movie & NOT feel bad for that poor (cheating) man, then you're heartless.

I don't know why I bother commenting though. This is just going to get lost between the polygamy debate & weirdo anon comments.

not the only one said...

Jacki - um is your head about to explode from all of that bitter anger and hatred spewing out of your mouth?

Sam - are you kidding? please tell me you are. the insulting comments on the front page of this blog are the funniest part of this blog.

Shelby - I thought we were done?

oh and fyi... I am not the only anonymous commenter.

Lucy said...

I hate it when people are getting a divorce and they always want to accuse the other person of cheating and most of the time it is completely untrue. Two of my close friends went through horrible divorces and both of their husbands accused them of the most horrible things you can imagine. Partly to slander their name and partly to try and take the kids away from them. Divorce is horrible!

Please don't start calling me a hater just because I have a different opinion than you even though I am anonymous!

The Lady Girl said...

Man, i think this is the first time I have looked back on your post's comments and actually felt anxiety. There is so much hate. It's oozing madness. Me no likey : (

Wouldn't the world be so boring if everyone was the same though? Nobody would learn a thing. Bleh. I feel my throat closing..must...push..publish.now.

Amy said...

So pretty much I am just commenting to boost the number. But I do wanna say that that I felt the same way you did Jake, even a few years into my marriage, but now I agree with Nikki. Please refer to each and every single on of her comments on this post.

P.S. Shelby is one cool girl. I can tell.

P.P.S. I understand why you responded to her that way and a nice text to her would be so sweet.

P.P.S. You both are so frickin hilar.

Anonymous said...

Nikki,

No. I am not saying that I could not forgive adultery. But the point you consistently miss is that you can forgive an adulterous spouse and still be compelled to end the marriage for your own sake and the sake of your children. And, in reality, that might actually be the best thing for your cheating spouse as well if they're going to continue their shenanigans. Adultery is a more grievous sin than fornication.

Anonymous said...

Amy,

You don't agree with Nikki. You just don't understand what Nikki is saying. You still think adultery is wrong. You're just not willing to say that divorce is automatic. Nikki is saying that divorce based on adultery is always wrong if children are involved and that if you divorce the adulterous spouse, you can't have forgiven them.

You don't agree with that.

Nikki said...

Anonymous 5:34 it is you who has completely rewritten my opinion. I never said divorce is ALWAYS wrong in an adultrous situation, not one time. I said it isn't always necessary and that to make a blanket statement that you would NEVER forgive and stay married is ludicrous. You are the one who is interpreting my position COMPLETELY WRONG. I never said divorce because of adultry is always wrong and you must forgive for the sake of children. You read what you wanted to so this is probably a waste of my time. My main point is that divorce is not always necessary, forgiveness and staying together can be done and when in a situation like the one Jake was referring to, it isn't always a black and white clear cut decision.
AND BTW STOP stating my opinion for me please, I am capable of doing that on my own. And if you feel the need to speak for me don't, just STFU. thank you.

Anonymous said...

You are such a jerk! I hope there is a special place prepared for you in he11 for the way that you treat women. You are so disrespectful, uncaring and cruel. The only time you considered pretending to care about this girl was when you thought it would result in a makeout.

Anonymous said...

Nikki,

You're still missing the point.

Also, it's "adultery", not "adultry."

And, it's one thing to claim to have a "potty mouth" you can't change, because sometimes people speak before they think. It's another thing entirely to deliberately put profanity in an email.

Nikki said...

Anonymous 1:23...did I email you? How is it that I emailed an anonymous person? Am I psychic? Did we correspond without my knowledge because I don't even know who you are. I deliberately USE profanity so I don't see the connection or the the "other thing" entirely snark. I am not hiding anything. I always think before I spew a bunch of cuss words, it is purposeful not accidental please make no mistake about that. Give me your email and you will no longer think I have a potty mouth, but a mouth make you cry for all that is Holy. And it is you who is missing the point not me. Thanks for the spelling lesson. AdultEry.

Angie said...

Why is there only now only 157 comments? Lets keep the heat going people! HA HA HA HA.

Monica said...

She'll get over it. My dad cheated on my mom and I have the same opinion you do. If a guy cheats on me it's over. She'll learn.

Wonder said...

I disagree with most of you. I think adultery is a serious sin, and one that shouldn't go without consequences. But just like all sin, Christ has made a way to work it out and be forgiven. How can we say that cheating = divorce? Are we better than Christ? Do we think we feel more pain than him?

I'm not justifying the sin, but I believe a marriage, especially one sealed in the temple, deserves more respect and a second chance. Even if it takes a few years to gain that trust again. It's worth it.

I've never been married. But I plan on loving my wife enough, that, if she were to cheat, and if she repented fully, I'd be able to get over it.

Ali said...

Ok, you are hilarious and I officially really like this blog! haha Ps I totaly agree with you.

Anonymous said...

I agree with this comment,

"Matthew 5:27-28 said...
"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

You my friend are guilty of the same."

Honestly do you think your future wife, if you ever get one, is going to look back happily at this post and laugh at how while this girl was in major distress and could have used your comfort all you could think about was sucking on her neck? Maybe you should think about that a little before you post more inner thoughts like that.

Also no one can understand the girls whole story from what was writen on the post. The mother could have been having a affair for years or could have simply went out on a "date" with some other guy to just test the waters. I feel that it is wrong for so many people to jump to conclusions about this girl and the whole situation without knowing the whole story.
It is shameful how people (me included) jump to opinions about things and people without knowing the whole story.

Tiffany said...

If his future wife loves him, she won't care that he was thinking about "sucking on her neck"

I just got married in October and both of us admit we were different even just a year ago when we were dating others. We don't go into detail about it, because it doesn't matter.
Wanting to makeout is part of being single and dating. Cut him some slack. When he meets the right one and falls in love he will be more mature. Its better then being socially awkward. He has hormones, like everyone. He will have a better sex life when he gets married because of it.

Anonymous said...

Nikki,

My email address is:

thomasmonson@email.lds.net

I am very interested in what you have to say.

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